Author Topic: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread  (Read 3783 times)

Offline sol-alpha

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Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« on: May 16, 2016, 06:35:03 PM »
I don't know if this kind of thread is allowed. I couldn't find anything else to be able to discuss how I was going at the moment with Umihara Kawase Shun and Umihara Kawase.
If it's okay, then I might make one for the original as well. (Since I am playing both at the same time.)

The difference why I wanted to make this is how of course this game and the original is different to Sayonara Umihara Kawase in that you can't get back to the last stage you had a game over at so you have to start over from the beginning. There is a practice mode which is like Sayonara Umihara Kawase but that doesn't unlock the next stage for you.

The first thing I wanted to point out was I did play Umihara Kawase months ago but only once. It's taken me this long to now come back to trying to complete these games after I made my Sayonara Umihara Kawase physics video because the physics in this game and the original definitely feels different to me than in Sayonara Umihara Kawase.

For example I feel I can't pull off my reckless slingshot moves as in where you swing from one side to another without a pendulum swing but instead using Hooke's law to compress the swing to throw you to the other side. When I end up doing that, I miss throwing my hook up to a ceiling and then fall into the water, to add to that I think I move way faster in comparison. I just remembered one of the other reasons is that I can't throw up my hook quickly after doing a slingshot because it takes longer for my hook to come back to me to throw it again if the length of the spring was long. It feels longer in this than in Sayonara Umihara Kawase so I end up falling into the water more easily.

So I've ended up using less slingshots and more pendulum swings instead to get across gaps.

Onto the progression, in this game and Umihara Kawase, I've just been going at my own pace picking the shortest route I can find in a stage if I happen to notice a ceiling or wall I can reach that is not in the "linear path". I haven't looked at any stage maps yet except for the one in-game for this game. The furthest stage I got to without any help is Field 62. I got stuck at Field 26 again even though I saved the replay completing it but I can't view it until I game over to get back to the main menu.

I was checking KawaseFan's YouTube channel to see if he had an easier method for completing that Field 26 but surprisingly I didn't find any videos.

So now, I am just going to get back to the game and see if I can progress further.

So again, the point of the thread is kind of like to note where people have progressed in-game and to declare if you finally beat it or not. Of course I could just lookup Youtube videos of the fields being completed but again I want to finish a field first if I can before I have to look up how to beat it if I get stuck.

For one, I got stuck in one of the earlier fields I think it was Field 19 where it took me a while to find out that one of the ceiling blocks can actually get pulled down. I also had to cheat in Umihara Kawase by looking at the KawaseFan's video for how to get to the door in field 24 that had a block in the way because I didn't know you had to pull it up with your hook. (I was right near the door and couldn't figure out how to get past. I used a different method to around the first block earlier in the stage with the elevating platforms.)

Edit: I should clarify, if I had to guess what feels different for the physics in Umihara Kawase/Shun vs Sayonara is that relating to Hooke's Law, I think the elasticity coefficient is different. I'm gonna have this wrong since its either the spring is more elastic or more rigid.

The easiest example to compare is when you stick the fishing hook to the ground and run off, when you let go of the d-pad the fishing hook drags you back. I noticed in Kawase/Shun it takes you back faster, when I get the time I will try making an estimation with Hooke's law with F = k(x-x0) and see what I can come up with, just a little busy now.

Edit 2: I probably didn't need to come up with an estimation, just applying theory. According to Wikipedia when using F = -kx, F is the restoring force which is what would pull Umihara back to where the spring is at equilibrium (as in x = 0, or its neutral position when no force is acting upon it.)

What's probably not being stated clearly is that F is a force vector so it should have an arrow on it, this is why F would have a negative value because it is going the opposite direction of the spring being pulled.

Assuming the unit measurement of F is in newtons which is kg.m/s^2, without sweating the details, we just assume that a bigger force means Umihara will go back to equilibrium position faster if a force with a high value acts on her.

As long as I don't get this wrong, remember that the force is proportional to distance of the spring. With F = -kx, if we set x as a constant value and have the k-value approaching zero, then F will also approach zero because it is proportional.
Likewise if k is approaching infinity, then F will approach infinity by proportionality.

So in short, this means the k-value is larger in Umihara Kawase/Shun compared to Sayonara. This means the spring is more rigid. That means Umihara has to apply a larger force to extend the spring. When that happens, the restoring force will occur and pull Umihara back but, as I said, because I noticed she moves faster in Shun from the above example. It means that Umihara is applying a larger force to the spring.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 10:28:29 PM by sol-alpha »

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2016, 08:14:21 AM »
I lost so many times in Field 31 that I had to look up how to get past the two tadpoles properly. Unfortunately, all I could find on YouTube were shortcuts to just get past them when they are jumping.

I kept dying at the part when the first tadpole lays 4 eggs and jumps away because it's either I get crushed by it or the frogs I didn't have time to get rid of that they jumped into the water.

I guess  I'll go into practice mode when I get the chance.

One other thing I will most likely have to look up is at Field 30 I think? It's when you take the blocked door in that stage with the 3 waves of squids. After taking the blocked door exit I end up getting to a stage with sharks and there are two exits but to get past one I have to pull a block down and get to the door before the block rises up again and it's pretty difficult doing it fast enough.

Offline KawaseFan

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2016, 11:54:05 AM »
I was checking KawaseFan's YouTube channel to see if he had an easier method for completing that Field 26 but surprisingly I didn't find any videos.
I'm planning to start doing Shun PC videos soon.  I haven't yet because I feel that Shun, despite being my favourite in the series, is also my weakest, and I want to feel confident that I can show well enough how to clear the fields before I start.

I can do F26 well enough, though; I could do a video for that in the next couple of days if you're still interested to see how I do it.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2016, 12:27:55 PM »
It's okay now for Field 26.
I managed to figure out how to make the traversals more easily now. I've managed to do either slingshot(no pendulum arc) or pendulum swing for first obstacle, then I figured out how much I needed to extend the fishing hook to swing from the right side of the block with spikes.
Then I just did slingshot again to get to the ladder before the door. On my first completion though I did a pendulum swing from that part to get straight to the door skipping the ladder but it's been hard to nail so I just went the normal way.

I've been saving my replays because I'll upload too, although it will just be average stuff anyway before I just use practice mode to make better attempts. (Same for Umihara Kawase)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 12:35:19 PM by sol-alpha »

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2016, 02:28:44 PM »
I've completed two endings now and probably done almost 40 stages going by how many continues I've been given. The furthest stage I think I've gotten to is F45, I just screwed up at the elevating platform but I figured out how to get past the spike platforms.

I made a mistake earlier, I meant Field 29 when talking about the stage with the sharks and a block that I have to pull down to get to the door before it rises back up, I figured it out, hopefully it gets easier each time then.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2016, 03:13:08 AM »
Now I am wondering how many stages I have left to go. I checked the DS version because I couldn't find a map for this one and it seems it wouldn't be the same because there's a field 62 in this but not any 60 numbered stages in the DS game looking at its map on an FAQ.

I just got my third ending and finished 41 stages.

At the credits it is funny how the playstation is censored but, do they at least have the anime scene playing in fullscreen elsewhere rather than skewed and small on a crt screen?

Offline KawaseFan

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2016, 09:42:55 AM »
Now I am wondering how many stages I have left to go. I checked the DS version because I couldn't find a map for this one and it seems it wouldn't be the same because there's a field 62 in this but not any 60 numbered stages in the DS game looking at its map on an FAQ.

I just got my third ending and finished 41 stages.
All of the fields in the PC version are in the DS version.  I usually refer to the field map at http://eventer.jp/kawase/ - the only field it's missing is F57, but that's in the list below the map.  There are 61 fields - the original Shun had 50 fields, ~Second Edition~ added three and Kanzenban added eight.

Quote
At the credits it is funny how the playstation is censored but, do they at least have the anime scene playing in fullscreen elsewhere rather than skewed and small on a crt screen?
Not in-game.  You can see it on YouTube, though.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2016, 11:00:12 AM »
Quote
Not in-game.  You can see it on YouTube, though.

Thanks, too bad that it had a small resolution.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2016, 04:40:22 PM »
Well, I think this is where I'll take a break. I hit a wall and I'm going to need to finish another game before Fire Emblem Fates comes out this week.

I'm not sure when I'll continue Shun, I'm just thinking of all the things up to end of June I have to deal with if commitments take up my time.

So basically, I hit a wall with two stages, Field 42 and Field 62 to Door 63. I didn't spend as much time on F42 because I kept dying and then, with Field 62, it was so painful that I did it for so long that I couldn't figure out how to get around the conveyor belt.

So I stopped at those, then I went to do two stages to get online rankings, problem is obviously the competition would be tougher because Shun has been out since ps1 era.

So I first did Field 13 https://youtu.be/cykzhTXS8pE
I was trying to see if I could do it quicker from the ramp but I had no luck.

But from doing Field 13 led me to figuring out this at Field 4
https://youtu.be/OnHQR-9DNo4
But it became obvious looking at the online rankings everyone else knew that so I couldn't figure out how to optimise it further.

And that's it for my progression for the moment.

Offline rainwarrior

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2016, 05:08:54 PM »
I've only seen 30 fields so far. Haven't made it to 26 yet.

I really hate trying to swing against the flow of a conveyor ceiling. It's easy enough to move along it, but you always have to make a grab at the end of it, and there's no way to be in a consistent position by the end! For this reason, Level 16 and 62 really bug me. Getting the alternate door in 62 is going to be a huge problem.

The twin tadpoles of level 31 seem devastating. I think it will be a long time before I get good at those.

19 has an alternate door across some spikes that I have no idea how to get to yet. There doesn't seem to be room to rocket jump, plus I still haven't really figured out how to rocket jump in Shun.

As for physics differences vs Sayonara, I think the big difference is a lack of ability to bounce, maybe that's what you are calling slingshot. Pulling the rope at the point of bounce doesn't give you as much of a boost, making it a lot harder to control a nice bouyant "float" as I move around. Also find it a lot harder to climb a sheer wall because of this. Might also be why I can't figure out the rocket jump too, since it's based on that mechanic. I do find the "pendulum" more springy, though, e.g. swinging over an edge then swinging back seems to be easier to fling myself up and over that way than in Sayonara, easier to get up from hanging underneath than climbing a wall, heh.

If you're looking for a map, there's one here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=703944579

(Same user has made maps for the other two as well.)

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2016, 04:41:12 AM »
(I'm assuming since I haven't gotten back into it in months.)
F62 is the one with the conveyor belts along a ceiling if I remember correctly and it's so difficult because... they kept going in the opposite direction so its a pain trying to get past it.

I just followed a YouTube video for F31 with the two tadpoles, just had to practice getting to the door by going past them although as mentioned, I would have wanted to beat them.

The differences I've noticed in physics as mentioned, for example, I couldn't do the slingshot much because I kept falling off a platform when landing but, I soon realised I need to run opposite my current direction when I land because Umihara in this game has in a simplistic sense, less friction when running fast so she doesn't stop so easily when she lands from a very fast swing.

Then of course, the trick for making her run fast when stationary is different in this game too. Just placing the hook on the ground and running to the side then the moment you let go she gets sent flying, so its a bit easier with timing and not having to immediately press the direction she's running at.

Anyway thanks for the map. I can see this it was put up on steam only recently.

Offline KawaseFan

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2016, 03:52:01 AM »
19 has an alternate door across some spikes that I have no idea how to get to yet.
I've just uploaded a video of the field 19 left exit, if you're interested.  I am a bit late with this, though, so you might have cleared it since then... sorry!

Offline rainwarrior

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 04:51:32 AM »
Thanks for that tip. I haven't been able to play this week, so I'd not looked at it again yet. Kind of interesting, I'd never tried a technique quite like that it Sayonara.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 06:13:30 AM »
Just saw the vid. You would have learned that in one of the other stages where there is a hill with spikes. Remember that this is the: accelerating from a stationary position while the hook is in the ground/wall. The first two games do it the same but differently to Sayonara as I mentioned in this thread and showed it in a video I uploaded when I was testing things.

In the first two games: When you stick the hook on the ground, run in one direction and let go of the d-pad, Umihara runs very fast to the other side.
You use this to run fast in the game from a stationary position and is easier to pull off I think compared to Sayonara.

In Sayonara: When you stick the hook on the ground, run in one direction and let go of the d-pad, Umihara runs a little and slows down to halt not even reaching the other side if I remember correctly.
I think it is harder to run fast in this version because you have to time it quickly running in the direction you want to go in a soon as you let go of the d-pad to have the hook pull you to the other side.  (Because of Umihara slowing down more quickly in Sayonara.)

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2019, 10:05:38 AM »
I am now starting from scratch since I haven't played any PC games for a long while. So what I did was I got a used copy of Umihara Kawase Shun Second Edition Kazenban (DS). I'm pretty happy with this since it's more convenient playing it portably.

I have only been playing in short sessions between Umihara Kawase and Umihara Kawase Shun. I am wanting to finish Shun before my import of Umihara Kawase Fresh! arrives.

So far I've only cleared the route ending at Field 30. I think I was last at Field 38 for progressing through other routes.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2019, 09:37:49 AM »
I have finished the route ending at Field 43. Now targeting Field 52 route. I like that the second screen shows the map of the stage and displays my position, enemy positions and the exits, very useful. I can't remember if the Steam version of the game had continues since I was surprised with the option on the DS game. Though I noticed you can't progress further if you've continued too many times I think.

I got stuck at Field 13 to Field 42 because I had forgotten how to do this. The timing to launch yourself to the ramp and to jump off the ramp is pretty difficult since I haven't found a consistent way of doing it. I'm lucky I actually did upload a video of myself doing that stage on Steam before lol: https://youtu.be/cykzhTXS8pE

Offline KawaseFan

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2019, 02:13:17 PM »
I can't remember if the Steam version of the game had continues since I was surprised with the option on the DS game. Though I noticed you can't progress further if you've continued too many times I think.

Yeah, the Steam version has continues, too; one extra continue for every ten stages you've cleared (totally stole this info from an old post of Alc's because I forgot how the continues worked ;D)

Great choice to play the DS version, though; as you mentioned, it's pretty convenient to be able to take it with you and play it wherever.

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2019, 06:51:23 PM »
I have finished three ending routes so far. The route ending at F30, F43 and F55.

F42 has been a nightmare to try to complete with its pixel perfect platforming so I went to progress through to the route ending at F63. When I reached F62 I remembered that this was the stage I got stuck at years ago. I had to start again which is when the second time around I finally beat it, I really hate conveyor belts.

So I finally reached F63 with no continues used but unfortunately I didn't get to finish it. Ran out of lives. I literally spent an hour trying to complete F63 but I seemed to have gotten worse each attempt. My best attempt was ruined by a snail being in the way when I needed to grab the ledge to the door. After that, it was becoming impossible for me to get through the second half of the stage. I get to the end on the right, pull myself up, I try to do a rocket jump but I kept doing something very wrong. After doing the rocket jump it has become ridiculously difficult for me to do the second jump, I run off the ramp and fall down. I kept changing the position of the lure to the ground but it didn't fix things, then I was trying to figure out other methods but something was wrong, I just couldn't do the jump for some reason even though I tried to jump before running on the ramp. I'll have to try again later in the practice mode.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 06:55:58 PM by sol-alpha »

Offline sol-alpha

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Re: Umihara Kawase Shun Field Progression Thread
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2019, 04:02:47 PM »


I finally did it. Haven't finished all ending routes though.

So first, I ended up doing a different method to what I saw for getting through F62 because I felt like I fluked it last time. This time I had Umihara facing right so that I would go through the conveyor belt facing backwards and somehow I managed to get through F62 facing backwards instead of forwards.

Second, I found out the problem I had regarding F63. So what happened was, when I was doing a rocket jump at the right hand side of the stage to get to the left of the second half of the stage, I kept falling off the ramp. The reason why is because when I did the rocket jump, I would hold right for too long, it causes Umihara to go further with the rocket jump causing me to not be able to jump since the floor isn't level once I hit the ramp.

So what I needed to do was hold right when pulling the lure, do the rocket jump, immediately let go of the right button, the lure will still pull me to the other side, I am suddenly able to jump and still have momentum to run through the ice floor after landing and jumping across the gap to get to the final part of the field.

It took me a few attempts to actually get the final jump right because I kept screwing it up. I did game over once during F63 but thankfully the game has still counted me as having finished the route because... If you actually game over before a boss stage, you don't get to progress after you beat the boss, the game ends there.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 04:09:17 PM by sol-alpha »