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Started by sol-alpha, February 20, 2016, 02:50:03 AM
Quote from: sol-alpha on February 21, 2016, 07:26:12 AMI don't know if you want to apply Moore's Law because from what I could remember and I could be wrong here, we just had a difficult transition going from 28nm nodes to 14nm finFET because 20nm barely provided any improvement and some kind of leakage(heat?) was occuring regarding transistors.
QuoteSure, it's possible that mobile phones could get as powerful as the consoles of now considering how the Tegra X1(?) is apparently the equivalent of an Xbox 360. However, there is still the problem with battery technology and how I always hear how mobile phone games make the phone run out of battery in less than an hour, and even I hate playing them on my phone or tablet because of how hot they get when you hold them.
QuoteI wouldn't mind if the ceiling does get hit with regards to graphics, technically then I wouldn't have to keep hearing people whine if Nintendo's next console isn't as powerful as the competitors that have the money to subsedise expensively over-engineered consoles (e.g. PS3) and take multi-billion dollar losses repeatedly like it's nothing (i.e. Microsoft). Although, with regards to a patent that Nintendo is trying to get, its possible that their next console could use what's been termed as a supplemental computing device (SCD) which can give a processing power boost to the NX and also be used as a localised cloud computing device that you could share with other people locally by giving them a online access to it which is suppose to net you benefits which are ideas mentioned in the patent including the ability to hook up multiple SCDs at once.
QuoteMoving onto PS4, I haven't followed project Morpheus that closely but anyway, apparently the project Morpheus now named PlayStation VR has Sony asking for developers to at least render the VR games at 90fps minimum so 45 for each eye.
QuoteApparently the PlayStation VR will come with an add-on device to boost processing power because the PS4 isn't powerful enough.
QuoteAlso, because you didn't mention, unlike oculus rift which just uses an Xbox one controller, the PS VR can use either the dualshock 4 or the PS Move controllers as the input method.
QuoteIf anything, and its just anecdotal since I am just reading off other forum posters but, they think PS VR could be the most successful vs oculus and vive supposedly because you don't need to get an expensive PC rig, that supposedly the PS VR will be the cheapest of the three when you don't account for buying a PS4 I guess.
QuoteThen the final part is that supposedly because of Sony's brand power and that they've been showing off the PS VR for the public to use at things like gamescom (I could be wrong on that part, I just remember someone posting a vid I think to do with a Eurogamer event in Portugal). So apparently cost, accessibility and brand power will be why PS VR will beat the other two.
QuoteOf course I never bothered to mention is, what if someone dies because of a VR game? There are lots of scenarios that a person could die of shock if it felt real enough even though it wasn't. Scenarios such as falling off a cliff, horror jump scares(?), having someone stab through your chest from behind and seeing a bloodied knife come through your chest could cause shock. If Nintendo were doing VR, this is where their Vitality Sensor could come in handy because there could be some kind of shut-down or phase shift in visuals if the heart rate is going too high.
Quotethere should be a game where you are out in the real world and its basically an FPS PVP game where you encounter other people playing the same game like say at your bus stop/train station and while waiting for transport you are using gun gestures to shoot beams at them via the AR game although I imagine it would cause many accidents including if it was released in the US with how police are with mistaking anything for a gun including toy guns. (Exaggerated, relax US cops)
QuoteWe're coming up on some hard walls, yeah, but I figure it'll get engineered around somehow; stacked silicon (already a thing in RAM I believe), whatever. Intel and co will want to continue selling us the new shiny, so they'll have to figure out something.
QuoteWell, Nintendo did kind of fuck up with the Wii U by their own admission, and it's not the hardware that's to blame, it's that they failed to effectively communicate to the public that it was a new console whilst drastically underestimating how much extra work HD games take to create. I love Nintendo, but those failure are on them, frankly. They aren't lacking for money, either - I remember reading something along the lines that they've got enough money saved away after the runaway success of Wii/DS that they could lose hundreds of millions of dollars every year and still be around for decades.
QuoteI do have to question the wisdom of announcing the NX when they did. I can't read that as anything other than deliberately scuppering the Wii U - you can kiss any real third party support goodbye once that announcement is out. It's a shame, as there've been some great games on it, and I feel like with Mario Maker, Splatoon etc they were starting to really hit their stride.
QuoteIn other respects they're mind-bendingly out of touch - it's taken them far, far too long to get up to speed on internet gaming and they keep doing crazy shit like this and this, which... I don't even know what to say, it's just so obviously dumb.
QuotePet gripe: I hate it when console manufacturers fracture the user base like this, it's like they never fucking learn: it's a headache for the less clued-up consumers, it's a nightmare for developers who have to decide which iteration of the platform to target and to what extent, and it generally leads to poor quality games. It was shitty back in the 80s/90s with all the upgrades to the PC Engine, Sega CD etc, it was shitty on the N64 with the extended RAM pack, and it was shitty with Kinect for the 360/One. When will they learn?
QuoteWell, the Rift is a PC device so it can use what it wants, and it's going to ship with these funky looking things:
Quote from: sol-alpha on February 23, 2016, 11:24:40 AMSo many studios closed down last generation thanks to Sony and Microsoft's decision to go in HD game development with their consoles that basically the only 3rd party publishers at the top are EA, Ubisoft and Activision because the mainstream consumer has been conditioned to being marketed games that have to have "GRAPHICS!" which then regarding the Wii U is partly why it makes it difficult for them to market their games on that system.
QuoteIt's been mentioned many times in interviews with various figureheads by game journalists when they ask when will there be a next console blah blah blah -> response: we are always developing the next console.
QuoteI can't remember if they pulled down other videos when they made the Nintendo Creators Program.
QuoteI don't know about that, I don't know too much of the PC-Engine's history but the only game I played from that is Castlevania: Rondo of Blood (via the Wii Virtual console) and I definitely wouldn't call that game poor quality.
QuoteBeing more on point, I am very certain the reasons for the CD add-ons for the PC-Engine and Sega Megadrive were to extend the lifetime of the consoles, they most likely hit their peak in sales Year-on-Year hence the add-ons were released to still keep the products on the shelves.
QuoteOh and I shouldn't forget that this is similar for the Neo Geo as well because the prices for the hardware and software were ridiculous that it only began to sell well when the Neo Geo CD came out.
QuoteWith regards to the N64 expansion ram pak, that only affected a few games. Donkey Kong 64, Perfect Dark and Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask are the only ones I remember. This is was a mistake on their initial decision on how much RAM to use
QuoteAgain, with the Kinect or the PS Move, that was to get Nintendo's audience and they were trying to prolong their product lifecycle which definitely occurred considering how long the console cycle had been, also because they were dominated by the Wii that both Sony and Microsoft made billions in losses hence they had to recoup the costs.
QuoteThat's a bit of a stretch... it was Nintendo who decided to go with previous-generation hardware with the Wii rather than going with something cutting-edge, and whilst it obviously didn't hurt Wii sales, you can't blame Microsoft and Sony for providing more powerful hardware, or for courting consumers with it.Games development has always been a volatile industry with endless casualties along the way, the NeoGAF link with the list of developers who went under during that period is mild when you compare to the bedlam of the 80s and 90s. Putting the blame on powerful new hardware is putting the the cart before the horse.
Quote from: Mark Cerny InterviewQ: Where do you think costs need to be stemmed?Mark Cerny: I was talking about the actual product cost. There has been a number of highly-publicised titles that have cost $70-80 million. It is rather hard to spend that money in an efficient fashion. What typically happens when you're up in that budget range is that you are not quite sure what sort of game you're making. And so you have a seven year development period, and it changes, and your burn rate is very high because you have a large team. Those budgets can come down much more easily because there's a high degree of inefficiency built into them.Something like God of War III is a bit trickier because that has been revealed to have cost in the neighbourhood of $40 million by the director of the studio, and to try and take something like that and reduce it is very, very tricky. It's an epic experience, it's already only a single player experience. Presumably, we see how everything is growing, these experiences grow broader in the future.It could also be that for the top couple of games you don't have the same imperative as you do for other games. If you came out of your big budget game with $100 million profit you're probably fine in a softening market. The question is a bit more critical if you've just broken even with your costly title.
Quote from: Cerny: Blockbuster game economics no longer make sense"We've had ten years where every year that went by the industry got bigger and more successful. But the natural growth has now gone. In fact, now that we're in decline if you want to add a person to your team to make the local industry economics add up, someone else has to layoff something like a person and a half."And there aren't many of these high budget games. Last year there were only about 50 or 60 games that sold over a million units - that's multiplatform and international. And only half only sold two million. Of course if you spend over $20 million you want to sell a million units. And if you spend over $50 million you want something well north of two million unit sales."
Quote from: Just Cause developer says AAA game development unhealthy, unprofitable"It's really not healthy at the moment," Sundberg said when asked to give his assessment of the AAA business today. "Games have evolved, technology has evolved but as businesses we're still stuck where we were 15 years ago. As budgets grow, risks increase.""The publishers are nervous because they have to project a game being a massive hit three years into the future and the developers are frustrated because they need to be flexible to every move the publishers make," Sundberg said. "It's impossible to make everyone happy in the current equation.""Very few traditional $60 games make any money, and what used to make sense doesn't any more," he said. "Publishers and developers very rarely see a return of investment from a 5-8 hour long game."
Quote from: THE STATE OF GAMES: STATE OF AAAIn film, the difference between AAA and everything else is largely in the abundance or lack of computer graphics, explosions and other graphical effects that cost a great deal of money to create. So-called "B" movies may have fewer well-known stars, but are typically just as well produced and look similar to AAA films, minus the dinosaurs and rocket ships. In games, it's all computer graphics. The general consumer metric of quality is the pinnacle of graphical technology, which in games represents 100% of what is seen on the screen, as opposed to film, in which that percentage is much, much smaller.The rising competition to mainstream, AAA games from the mobile and social sectors is creating a market for "B" level games entirely outside of the scope of traditional development. EA and Ubisoft are investing heavily in this sector for the express purpose of getting a foot in the door of what they believe will be the next big audience, but for core gamers un-interested in this market, the choices are slim. In video game development, there is nowhere to save money without sacrificing quality. "B" games look, to the consumer, like bad games. There is no market for "straight to DVD" or "second run theater" titles. There is no "made for TV." In games, If it isn't AAA, it's bargain bin. There is no middle ground.This is why Ubisoft, which is concentrating heavily on the low-end market with Wii games and games designed for children and families, is pulling in revenues higher than Activision, which is focused almost exclusively on AAA development. This is why the iPhone, for which games are sold for under $10 and cost merely hundreds of thousands to develop, is currently the most popular gaming platform. This is why the MMO industry, which a half-decade ago employed close to a million game developers, is now shifting to a "free-to-play" model, where consumers pay only for premium extras, at a few dollars a piece.This is also why the AAA developers are also looking at premium or "freemium" models, in which consumers may still pay for a game off the shelf, but will also continue to pay the more they play. If you think Call of Duty Elite and EA's online pass programs are a flash in the pan, think again. The next generation of consoles (and the one after that) will rely heavily on online distribution, and once that happens, the control of the market will shift from retailers to console makers, and then directly to publishers.
QuoteGames development has always been a volatile industry with endless casualties along the way, the NeoGAF link with the list of developers who went under during that period is mild when you compare to the bedlam of the 80s and 90s. Putting the blame on powerful new hardware is putting the the cart before the horse.
QuoteYou also seem to be down on the 360/PS3, but both have plenty of great games that aren't your typical big-budget CoD/Gears of War/grimdark shooter of the month, and made by smaller dev houses. The PS3 in particular had some wonderfully unique Japanese games, the 360's Live Arcade section had some real gems and their Xbox Live Indie Games program (which allowed anyone to create and publish games on their platform, curated by the community rather than Microsoft - pretty remarkable for the day) also produced some surprisingly solid, innovative games that you couldn't get anywhere else (and it was still running last I checked, all these years later). With respect, saying it was all graphics, graphics, graphics on those systems is just wrong.
QuoteThat program was what I was meant, not ROM hacks. There are people are providing free, potent advertising for your games to literally millions of viewers, and you want to piss off these video creators by forcing them to mess around signing up to some scheme of yours dictating which games they can and cannot advertise for you, and then demand a cut of their ad revenue? The community blowback should've been obvious, it's just such an Old Business way of thinking about things. Times have changed, the dynamic of power has shifted, and it's worryingly myopic of them not to have noticed.
Quote from: sol-alpha on February 24, 2016, 08:03:33 AMlet's say for the moment that it isn't Microsoft or Sony's fault for providing more powerful consoles.
QuoteMaybe the causation isn't with the transition in HD game development, rather the causation for all the problems mentioned above with the gaming industry is because of AAA-Publishers.
Quotethe average video game budget just for developing (not market or licensing) a game http://kotaku.com/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-big-video-game-1501413649 wasn't that high in the 80s/90s compared to the last 15 years.
Quotelet's not forget that before the HD Transition, that games use to cost US$50
QuoteI've read someone argue this before but, it should be called "free exposure"
QuoteAnyway, from what I remember reading this argument before. If YouTube celebrities decided to sue Nintendo or other companies to get money for their free advertising, they probably wouldn't have a chance of winning because they do not own the IP.
QuoteThis can easily be seen from Mobile Phone games, you don't need a YouTube celebrity to play Clash of Clans or Candy Crush Saga to get people to play the games
QuoteI've read the rest with the add-ons, I've got nothing to argue there.
QuoteTo clarify what you're suggesting here -that videogame consoles could all have halted in processing power to some arbitrary point in the early 2000s, along with the Wii- as a thought experiment, what do you think would've happened? The development of computer hardware would have marched on. Do you think we'd be anywhere different, now? Would it make any difference if it was Valve, Apple, or Atari, or whoever else pushing game budgets up and inadvertently making publishers risk-averse instead?
QuoteYou can't point the finger of blame solely at any one party (consumer, developer, publisher); you are looking for a culprit when you should be looking for a reason. It boils down to teething issues with a nascent, rapidly evolving industry that is figuring out how to create content, at varying degrees of scope, that's popular and profitable at the same time. There will continue to be shakeouts, businesses big and small that cannot find a way to profit, which will no doubt be painful for those involved (as the comments from developers in the articles you linked show).
QuoteYou might want to blame the publishers, but they're the ones who bankroll the whole thing. Of course they are cautious; you'd be cautious too if it was your hundred million dollars on the line. Hell, if I was a publisher, I'd publish fuck all but Madden, because I like having money more than not having it. I'm only half kidding here. I'm just quietly appreciative whenever a big new IP gets the green light, even if it's not my kind of game.
QuoteHa! Forgive me for grumbling away here, but I remember the days of $90 N64 games being something the Nintendo crowd just had to swallow as standard. I remember in the UK, Virtua Racing for the Megadrive costing £90, and Street Fighter 2 costing £60, and this was in the early 90s - adjust up for inflation, and those games cost multiples of what an equivalently high-profile game costs me new from a supermarket today.
Quote from: sol-alpha on February 25, 2016, 07:46:05 AMNo, I was just saying if it's not the platform holders. Then what is the cause of all these studios that closed down since 2006. It was to see if there was an underlying cause.
QuoteThere was someone knowledgeable about this whom I think said that the gaming industry in the 80s/90s were more like the wild west (assuming it meant that success was unpredictable) but now, the western AAA-Publishers especially EA/Ubisoft/Activision have the 14-35 year old male demographic locked down. So they know what they need to sell to this demographic except the problem is that demographic isn't growing, it's going to start becoming a niche like comics.
QuoteIf the userbase doesn't grow, and they keep making more and increasingly expensive AAA games with rising development costs over the years, its going to be worse compared to where we are right now with having to take more money out of those consumers with season passes and microtransactions.
QuoteOf course there can be good DLC/Season passes however that isn't always the case and the consumer is usually the one taking a risk on season passes because they don't usually detail what you'll get for paying almost as much as you bought for the game and I heard people were pretty peeved about say the Arkham Knight Season pass being lacking in content.
QuoteOh and I should point out that I think even these publishers know they can't keep sustaining this model to keep showing to their investors their profit margins hence why EA went into mobile phone gaming and I'm assuming it hasn't been finalised yet but, Activision-Blizzard are buying out King (The company known for Candy Crush Saga).
QuoteI don't see indies having a shot either by becoming bigger because consumers now would rather wait for indie games to get cheap to buy rather than buy it at $20. Even if they did become big like say Mojang, they still need to get people to expand the business instead of just having staff in games development otherwise they would just end up being bought out by Microsoft, etc.
QuoteEven though there have been gamers complaining about broken games at launch, it still hasn't made a difference in product sales outcomes.
QuoteI seriously don't understand why Microsoft even bought Rare in the first place.
Quote from: sol-alpha on February 25, 2016, 10:21:03 AMPalmer Luckey is teasing a VR Card Battle by mentioning if anyone remembered the Virtual World in Yu-Gi-Oh! and part of me just went "Nooooo!" Because I wanted Yu-Gi-Oh! (or any other card game) with AR using holographic projection.
QuoteI find that kind of hard to swallow when you look at the list of the best-selling games ever - Minecraft is way up there, and the kids today can't get enough of that shit. I think it's fantastic, because those kids are going to grow up not just demanding games that provide them with great experiences, but also games that allow them to create their own great experiences.
QuoteThis gross over-targeting of the teen/adult white male "core gamer" is a passing phase and I for one am happy about that.
QuoteGames that may not appeal to that demographic - Everybody's Gone to the Rapture; That Dragon, Cancer; The Stanley Parable/The Beginner's Guide; Her Story; Life is Weird; whether you like these games or not, their existence (and popularity) show that the medium is diversifying and that not everything has to conform to the generally narrow appetite of that one group.
QuoteGranted, there has been/will continue to be some kicking and screaming along the way from certain quarters, as a minority of today's self-identified "gamers" become accustomed to the fact that they're not the only ones who deserve to enjoy the medium, but again: teething pains. This will pass. Sooner or later the publishers are going to figure out how to monetise the absurdly under-represented "everyone else" market - these people have money and are willing to part with it for games that appeal to them. Game developers are predominantly young, white and male, which does regrettably tend to skew game design somewhat, so this is a process that might take a while longer yet.
Quote from: THE STATE OF GAMES: STATE OF AAAThis is why Ubisoft, which is concentrating heavily on the low-end market with Wii games and games designed for children and families, is pulling in revenues higher than Activision, which is focused almost exclusively on AAA development. This is why the iPhone, for which games are sold for under $10 and cost merely hundreds of thousands to develop, is currently the most popular gaming platform. This is why the MMO industry, which a half-decade ago employed close to a million game developers, is now shifting to a "free-to-play" model, where consumers pay only for premium extras, at a few dollars a piece.
QuoteI've never bought a season pass, and it's a very rare thing for me to preorder a game, because the potential pitfalls are too obvious. You make the game/content, and if it's good I'll buy it. So far this has served me pretty well.
QuoteMost of the big publishers today started off as small companies with noble intentions, EA especially - their history is fascinating if you've not looked into it.
QuoteLast year Steam started offering refunds on games, and by all accounts it stung the publisher of Arkham Knight pretty fucking hard when the refunds started coming in in droves. This is good business practice: it's obviously good for the consumer, but it also provides a powerful incentive for the developer to do things right. I want to see this elsewhere in the games industry, it's just obviously The Right Thing.
QuoteI couldn't help shaking my head at the comments made by Microsoft's Phil Spencer about the potential of releasing new hardware for the XB1. Current units are obviously not upgradable, so he's talking about an entirely new SKU. I'm sure developers are going to love having two hardware targets for their games - essentially having to make two ports of the same game instead of just one (and this now that they're finally starting to get away from the 360). Customers are going to be thrilled, forking out for biennial hardware upgrades for what amounts to a walled-garden, gimped PC! I mean, what's not to love? Sigh...
QuoteJudging by the comments section most people are just pissed that they're using the Conker name for something that's clearly nothing to do with BFD, and that's absolutely fair - that game has an absolutely rabid fanbase and shoehorning their character into something so toylike is just dumb, so I'm not surprised it got downvoted so hard. Poor character choice aside, I thought it looked interesting - I'd like to have a play, anyway.
QuoteLeap Motion is the kind of thing where I'll wait and see, I'm a bit cynical and suspect the tracking is not as responsive/accurate as the video implies. I feel the same way about the more ambitious Hololens productivity stuff, creating your own 3D shapes etc - so much of this is reliant on excellent, intuitive and wholly original UI/UX, it's impossible for me to watch these videos and come away with anything other than scepticism. Nobody ever gets a novel interface right the first time.
QuoteDid you ever hear of Eye of Judgement for the PS3? I picked it up cheap a year or so ago, it had some major technical issues and the card game itself was pretty bad but I had to give them credit for the idea. Got rid of it pretty quickly, though...
Quote from: sol-alpha on March 09, 2016, 02:47:40 PMQuoteThis gross over-targeting of the teen/adult white male "core gamer" is a passing phase and I for one am happy about that.I don't see it as a passing phase since the publishers mentioned are constantly relying on that demographic, as long as Sony and Microsoft are around, they will keep using that demographic because that audience on their consoles mainly buy those games.
QuoteThis gross over-targeting of the teen/adult white male "core gamer" is a passing phase and I for one am happy about that.
QuoteNot sure if you were specifically asking me, I haven't play any of those games listed.
QuoteSince you're listing indie games the only recent one I remember playing was Undertale
Quotefrom what I heard, Nintendo doesn't allow unsold stock returns or whatever other insurance for retailers to get money back. Hence why it becomes an inventory risk for the likes of Gamestop.
QuoteThat would have to wait for another time, I had already seen two documentaries for Ocean Software and Nintendo/Sega Video game rentals (war?) in the US recently
QuoteAnecdotally, I kept seeing people post that they ended up buying Arkham Knight on PS4 after refunding it on steam.
QuoteSince Arkham Knight wasn't broken on consoles, they would have suffered heavy losses if it was. Considering the difference is that Warner Bros. has to pay shipping and other fees to retailers for physical copies whereas on Steam they only lost money on sales.
QuoteHowever for games that are sold in retailers, we don't have the convenience of access to NPD for finding any games that were refunded.
QuoteYou do know that Nintendo are doing that with the NX? It's been hinted at for a long time with regards to trying to follow Android/iOS with regards to keeping software more easily backward and forwards compatible(?) due to trying to keep the architecture as similar as possible like the SoCs that Apple use with PowerVR etc. I don't know how often the incremental upgrades would be, it could be the same as all their portable hardware and consoles have been.
QuoteOh, interesting! Can you let me know the names?
QuoteThat's a terrible idea and I hope the don't go down that route. Personally I'd like to see x86 and a half-decent GPU in the base unit, they can put an ARM/Mali SOC or some shit in the removable bit. Honestly I don't fancy their chances with this one but I've been wrong about Nintendo in the past.
QuoteWhen they were about to launch the DS they showed a roadmap at a developer conference that included a beefed-up GBA - a backup plan in case the weird-ass dual screen with a microphone thing didn't work. Gamers thought Nintendo had lost the plot when they heard about the DS, it was a laughing stock in gaming forums... then it came out and the games were great and it went on to be the best-selling handheld ever. With Nintendo you can never be sure.
Quote from: sol-alpha on March 16, 2016, 05:18:26 AMQuoteOh, interesting! Can you let me know the names?Nintendo vs. Video Game Rentals - Gaming Historian - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3xuy5YALl0The Story of Ocean Software: "The Biggest Games Company in the World" - Kim Justice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0TE927j4csKeep in mind that no people are interviewed in the videos, so it is mainly a retelling of events.
QuoteYou did see the edits I made? Nintendo can't just keep releasing a new console/handheld with an install base of zero because it has been disadvantageous for them compared to the likes of Sony.
QuoteThe point is, they want to follow the Android/iOS model of keeping games on accounts hence why we have Nintendo Account which came out last month and in this week or the next the My Nintendo Account. By keeping software tied to accounts and not hardware shows they are following through on what Iwata mentioned back in 2013/2014 (Can't remember the exact date) on having the NX be a platform that comes in multiple formats which could be a home console, handheld, tablet, watch etc. I just threw in the last two, no form factors have been confirmed, the point is that they would be able to make multiple form factors from not using wildly different SoC on each form factor.
QuoteI don't understand why you think it's such a horrible idea considering the circumstances that lead them to this: failure of Wii U, struggles of developing on new hardware which causes software droughts.
QuoteOh I also remembered that it was rumoured that some(?) developers are using a virtual SDK that they don't need the NX hardware to develop for the NX however, we have to wait for confirmation of that until Nintendo reveals the NX since NDAs are still going.
QuoteEdit: I am shocked, at http://www.digitaltrends.com/virtual-reality/oculus-rift-vs-htc-vive/ where there is comparison for technical specs. The vive and rift only have a refresh rate of 90Hz while in that video I posted from sony, the PSVR has a 120Hz refresh rate.Although the vive and rift have 2160 x 1200 resolution and the PSVR has 1920x1080, the PSVR uses RGB while the rift/vive I read uses pentile for the screens where apparently the screens on the PSVR will look better because of more sub-pixels per area and someone mentioning you wouldn't see the screen door effect like I have. I'm not aware of any other advantages Vive/rift have over PSVR other than vive/rift have 110 degrees of vision while PSVR only has 100 degrees.
Quote(On the 90Hz/120Hz thing, most PSVR games will actually be running at 60Hz with reprojection to smooth things out. Google's your friend if you want more info, but as a simple summary: some visually simple PSVR games will hit 120Hz but most will cheat; Vive/Oculus can't perform the same trick because they don't have the low-level access to the hardware right now. True 90Hz > reprojected 60Hz. I'd expect Oculus or Valve to get a 120Hz headset out within a year or two of the release of their first model, anyway.)
Quote from: sol-alpha on March 16, 2016, 09:05:11 PMSo the next step would be interacting with the game using facial and voice recognition.
QuoteAnother nifty little feature would be eye-tracking but, that is already being used/developed in VR so we know that is also something that can help interacting with NPCs in-game.
QuoteExpanding this to online multiplayer with other people, we can already communicate outside of games using Skype for example and it is pretty good for face-to-face interaction. In video games, we don't have that yet. We can communicate with microphones but, it is similar to talking on the phone while other games that communicate with text like MMOs lack knowing the emotion/intonation behind a word being said. If we could interact via avatars that can show our facial expressions, I'm certain this would be the kind of "Social Gaming" that companies have been looking for.
QuoteOf course it's not all sunshine and roses, there are bad sides to it too. This is why as I said it would be great if the tech worked well interacting with NPCs because it'd be awesome because, if we don't have it with NPCs, it would be unpleasing for some people in online interactions other people. The worse thing that can happen is cyber bullying, we still have anonymity in video games but when you remove anonymity for how a person is feeling from seeing their facial expressions and even where they are looking with regards to eye-tracking. You could turn facial recognition and eye-tracking off but that would probably give more ammo for people to bully you then. (Oh and even cyber-stalking would be on a whole other level.)
QuoteOne of the responses that may come up is about the Project Natal - Milo Demo from Peter Molyneux's studio. As you can see, this isn't a new idea, that project failed.
QuoteThat's a pretty interesting idea if it could be made to work. Clever facial representation through 3D mapping via something like the Kinect's 3D IR projector/camera array is probably possible, but I'd wager it'd step into the uncanny valley when it came time to render your facial animation onto your avatar.
QuoteReturning back to the topic, I spotted this the other day:http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/16/11247288/playstation-vr-processing-unit-ps4So I guessed wrong, all it's doing is some binaural trickery for 3D sound and video multiplexing but not much else. Everything else will have to be handled by the PS4 itself. Good luck with that, PSVR devs.
Quote from: sol-alpha on March 25, 2016, 10:34:06 PMYeah, I didn't mention that because it wasn't going to do anything for helping the games look better. However, with regards to something earlier which was how you were talking about the xbox 1.5 and I mentioned Nintendo were going to a similar thing with the NX, I assume you had heard about the ps4.5/ps4k as well? Now it seems all 3 companies are in on it.
QuoteIn other news to do with AR, I mentioned how Microsoft were trying too hard to make Skype in AR look amazing when it wasn't in a video posted. This one came up recently, "holoportation: virtual 3D teleportation in real-time (Microsoft Research)" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d59O6cfaM0 and it's done a better job at showing something cool for AR without trying too hard and it's already better than what Skype did. Only downside is again is that it requires cameras to be setup and that it is restricted to people who are wearing the hololens. Which I bring up again that holographic projection would be better than this when it allows more than one person in a room to see people from another room even though that tech is far away.
QuoteWith Microsoft, they've got this grand unification of services thing that they're trying to pull off, Making Windows a rolling standard with various hardware platforms supported, and they're dragging their Xbox division into it, so whilst the potential Xbox One upgrade cycle still has all the issues I've mentioned before, at least I can see where the idea is coming from; to be clear, I still think it's a horrible, anti-consumer mistake.
QuoteMost games on PS4 struggle to maintain 1080p/30FPS (some don't even hit 1080p, and most games have some degree of framerate dip at times), the idea that they'd leap to 4K with relatively minor changes in an affordable unit (just a slightly upgraded CPU/GPU chip, for instance) is flat-out impossible. The hardware for running games natively in that resolution is going to be prohibitively expensive for a consumer box for a long time to come, and even if hypothetically Sony did release some monstrous powerhouse it still wouldn't make current PS4 games run better without them being patched by their developers, because all standard PS4 games are tightly designed around the original fixed PS4 hardware platform.
Quote from: from the linkThe design wins are interesting because the funding, the R&D dollars for customizing the parts for the products to our customers is precisely pre-funded by the customer and like I said the workload is started and we are spending the money and the resources and the work to go ahead and design the parts to be introduced sometime in 2016.
Quote from: from the linkWe didn't say at which space it is in. I'm not going to give too much detail. I'll say that one is x86 and one is ARM, and atleast one will be on gaming, right. But that's about as much as you going to get out me today, because the customers from the standpoint to be fair to them. It is their product. They launch it. They announce it and then just like the game console or the parts you find out that its AMD's APU that's been used in those products.
QuoteYeah, exactly. Holographic projection would be nice but it wouldn't solve the capture issue, which is sort of intractable. If you want to capture someone's complete physical dimensions in 3D, you need multiple reference points (i.e. cameras) - that's just the plain physics of it.5.1 sound systems have made significant inroads in the consumer market, it's possible they could accommodate the same kind of system but with cameras, but I don't see this kind of tech taking off - except in board rooms for companies with more money than they know what to do with.
Quote from: OsirisBlackRelated info from a meeting we had yesterday was waiting for it to be approved before posting.Price is currently $399.99 they were discussing a better CPU which would raise the price to $499.99 we were guaranteed the price will be no higher than $499.99 (He mentioned the CPU upgrade quite a bit almost as if they haven't really decided on a final spec could be a pricing issue.) also there is currently no plan for any type of trade in program for current PS4 users but that could change. They stated that the GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster. They did not say exactly how fast but that is was running at a higher clock speed while being much smaller than the original. It will have a 4k blu ray player and will upscale games that are not natively 4k. Also there was talk of some sort of VR lounge for the media player app which is supposed to be getting a substantial upgrade. It was stated plainly and with no room for interpretation that there are developers that already have development kits for the PS4K and that they are making games that will directly target and take advantage of the higher specs of the PS4K. It was also stated that these games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance. It was also made very clear that current games would not be getting any type of performance upgrades by being played on the system and any benefits to older games would come via patch per game and per developer. When asked if this was going to happen the response was "Its a possibility but doubtful with the exception of a handful of games." We were also given a list of games that will be available at launch that will directly take advantage of the PS4K where the differences are and I will quote him "Significant."For the PSVREve Valkyrie Robinson GT SportFor the PS4KDeep Down (Thought this was dead)GOW4 (This was the exact abbreviation on the sheet I can only assume its god of war 4)There were more games on the list but these are the ones that stood out to me. That's all I can remember off the top of my head I'll see if I can get any more information.
QuoteYes I do care about my job and I generally do the firing =) . To clear up a few things though he did not make it sound like all games would be native 4k just that they would be scaled to 4k and we do have a tentative placeholder date for late Q1 next year.Tried to keep my personal thoughts out of this thread but I really believe this move is all about the PSVR trying to look a bit better when compared to its direct competition.
Quote from: sol-alpha on March 29, 2016, 10:48:44 PMI thought when they revealed the xbox one, they claimed that it would be the most powerful console because of cloud computing.
QuoteAside from watching videos in 4k, I assume having better graphical quality games on psvr may be a reason for the ps4k. I don't know what differences developers are going to go for for regular AAA games, the ps4k would have to be almost (I assume) as powerful as the high end pc GPUs to run at 4k resolution and would be need a better CPU at the same time too.
QuoteThis was at the end of 2014, before people even knew about the NX because it wasn't announced yet. It's problematic that it says for their design wins that the guy says x86 and ARM but doesn't say which one is for gaming. Could be hinting it is ARM because he could have just said x86. However, I also remember from an article older than that in the same year that an AMD exec was interested in the handheld business which meant that AMD would be interested in the portable NX.
Quote1) The design win for a gaming console was x86 which ended up being the PS4K2) The design win for a gaming console was ARM which ends up being the portable/console NX...3) Both designs are for gaming consoles because of the wording in the quote "at least one will be on gaming" not at most, so at least one means there could be two.
QuoteWell, maybe you could somehow make use of 1 camera with mirrors like some interferometer
QuoteThey stated that the GPU is twice as powerful as standard PS4 and much faster. They did not say exactly how fast but that is was running at a higher clock speed while being much smaller than the original.
QuoteSo, considering the possible upgrade to the CPU and 2x power upgrade to the GPU. This could help PSVR games look graphically comparable to any versions of the same game on Rift, Vive.
QuoteConsidering that it can upscale games that are not rendered at 4k resolution makes me think that the AAA devs will prefer rendering the game at 1080p and then upscaling it so they can take advantage of adding more intensive graphical effects and/or allowing the game to run at 60fps, if they just rendered the game at 4k it may mean that the ps4k game will not look that much different compared to the ps4 version.
QuoteDid Nintendo choose someone else (PowerVR?) to be their vendor for their SoC for the NX?
QuoteBase unit x86, portable unit ARM - yeah, could be NX, but it could be innumerable other things.
Quote from: bluFor the record, I don't 'want' NX to be ARM-based, but ARM is by far the most logical path forward for a new gen console ecosystem coming out in 2016 (i.e. a console + a handheld + god-knows-what-else). For the game devs the ISA won't matter 95%* of the time. For the platform privder the ISA will matter a great deal - they have to double their efforts in a good deal of the HAL, last but not least, the security of the sandbox/VM. It's much easer and robust to have one ARMv8 hypervisor across the entire ecosystem**, than N different hypervisors.* the remaining 5% being inline assembly and/or intrinsics - both things which are normally performance-tuned to the uarch, where things can differ across different x86's as much as they can across x86 and ARM.** something trivial across ARM's bigLITTLE implementations.
QuoteMy first thought is that this doesn't make any sense. The CPU and GPU are one chip on the PS4 so saying that the GPU alone is "much smaller" sounds like they don't understand how the PS4 was put together, and "twice as powerful and much faster" is sort of saying the same thing twice..? Anyway, for the sake of debate, I'm going to assume everything said was true and that there is an upgraded PS4K in the pipeline exactly as the poster says. I hope they're wrong, but let's discuss.
QuoteThe PS4 essentially has an AMD 7850 in it. I remember this because, as it happens, I had a 7850, ~4 years ago, and it was a mid-range card that cost me £100 or so. Having twice that power does not come near to the recommended specs for the Oculus and Rive. Don't get me wrong, it would help PSVR - and would obviously be preferable to that hopelessly underpowered PS4 GPU on its own - but it's not going to make it comparable to what Oculus and Rive demand. What it would do, and this does make some sense, is that it would allow developers to go "ok, we're going to develop a 60HZ game for regular PS4s, and throw in a VR mode using the extra power for the second scene for PS4K/PSVR".
QuoteThere are two games in town these days, ARM and x86. PowerVR are one possible ARM SoC vendor, but it doesn't really matter that much which.
Quote"I still couldn't think of what Nintendo's NX is going to be however, it lead me to think of what would be the next big thing after VR/AR in gaming, and that is Social Interaction."
Quote"So the next step would be interacting with the game using facial and voice recognition. This is probably what I think Nintendo would want if they wanted to get into VR considering how Miyamoto thinks that VR is anti-social because you are wearing a HMD in a room by yourself. However, I am just applying the idea in a non-VR situation to make this easier to explain. You sit in front of your TV with a Camera/Microphone facing you similar to the Kinect or let's say this was somehow the Nintendo NX handheld in your hands with a Camera/Microphone facing you, you are playing a game with an avatar and you are interacting with an NPC in-game. When you are responding/interacting to the NPC you can smile/frown/laugh etc and the NPC would respond accordingly. Another nifty little feature would be eye-tracking but, that is already being used/developed in VR so we know that is also something that can help interacting with NPCs in-game.Expanding this to online multiplayer with other people, we can already communicate outside of games using Skype for example and it is pretty good for face-to-face interaction. In video games, we don't have that yet. We can communicate with microphones but, it is similar to talking on the phone while other games that communicate with text like MMOs lack knowing the emotion/intonation behind a word being said. If we could interact via avatars that can show our facial expressions, I'm certain this would be the kind of "Social Gaming" that companies have been looking for."
Quote from: sol-alpha on July 19, 2016, 10:06:10 AMShould I bother trying to invest money now in Nintendo?
Quote(As to your actual question, I wouldn't claim to know much about stock market investment, but I know enough to know that buying during a sudden boom is running a serious risk of being part of a bubble. And bubbles burst.)
QuoteBack to the previous discussion, I'm somewhat dispirited to acknowledge that we're getting both an upgraded PS4 and an upgraded Xbox One. I really wish this wasn't the case, but c'est la vie.
QuoteI still couldn't think of what Nintendo's NX is going to be however, it lead me to think of what would be the next big thing after VR/AR in gaming, and that is Social Interaction.
Quote- $35 million in revenue - 30 million worldwide downloads - iPhone owners in the U.S. alone are spending approximately $1.6 million every single day - top-grossing app in the $36.9 billion mobile-gaming sector and the entire iOS and Android app market